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  1. #1
    Regular Member KING CUNOBELIN's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    I've spent a good many years looking into this question and can provide a resounding YES in answer, albeit just an informed opinion. According to the archaeology, Troy (Hissarlik in western Turkey) fell to the Greeks circa 1275bc. Many Trojans were taken captive and enslaved in Epirus in n. Greece, according to traditional records. These bonded Trojan slaves lived in shame at Butrint in Albania (then called Buthrotum in Epirus, northern Greece), and there they remained until a hero arrived some 40 years later. His name was Brutus (although his actual name was more likely Bryttos), a great-grandson of King Aeneas of Latium (formerly Prince Aeneas of Troy, hero of The Iliad). After the war, Aeneas had led many of the survivors from Troy to ancient Italy, when it was called Latium. He married a Latin princess named Lavinia, with their royal residence at the new town of Lavinium. Here it is believed that Brutus (Bryttos) was born. Aged 15 years he was sent out of Latium with an army of 3000 men. His sole purpose, it appears, was to join with his captive kin in Epirus. He soon became their leader and sued the Greeks to let his people go free. After the refusal, a brief war followed in which the Mycenean and Spartan wings of the proto-Greek alliance were wiped out. Prince Bryttos (Brutus) proved that cunning in war could overcome superior strength and might. Having won their victory over the Greeks, it was the choice of the Trojans then to sail far away to the safety of a famed island in the west. It was then called The White Isle, or Albinn (Albion). But once it was settled by so many thousands of war-hardened Trojans, who soon came to live all across and up and down the land, then it was given the name of Britain from its founding king, Bryttos. Now that is broadly the written tradition, but a good deal can be added to substantiate the claims that are made in this tradition. One such substantiation is the mysterious disappearance of the Myceneans and the equally strange appearance of the Dorians, a problem that historians have struggled with for many years. Yet the ignorance they have practised towards British sources like Geoffrey of Monmouth, is all that has allowed this problem to persist. The modern Greeks cannot be happy to discuss matters of their own glorious past as being bound up with the Albanians to the north. Nor can they tolerate thoughts that the mighty proto-Greeks might have been overcome by Trojans (from modern western Turkey) allied with cultural elements that were proto-Albanian, and that these latter elements became then known as the Dorians, the new masters of what then became known as Greece. The implications are undestandably difficult to deal with for the Greeks, hence there is a wedge blocking progress in this direction. Over in Britain we find a similar "head-in-sand" dynamic, where so many "scholars" ignore the claimed past of the Britons, as they have been conditioned to do. My own investigations have revealed many evidences of Trojans arriving in Britain circa 1220bc, when there was a clear shift in the form of archaology found. Because the Trojans were an advanced people, their fields of activity were broad. They used chariots and wagons pulled by horses or oxen. They developed roads, of a primal form. They built hill-forts and occupied walled towns. They brought new styles of weapons, using new refinements of metallurgy for stronger blades, and new types of casting-moulds for casting sturdier and more deadly forms of axes, spears etc. These people also practised better agriculture, weaving and industry, and their methods persisted right into the Celtic Iron Age. The archaeologists refer to the period of their settlement in the Late Bronze Age as a period of "industrial revolution", yet they have no context for this, it is but an excuse to avoid discussing the cultural issues. It is obvious and clear that we can distinguish between the Trojan and Albion-ite archaeology to determine where the Trojans settled in Britain. To read very much more on this subject try the recently published book "King Bryttos & The Trojan Origins Of Bronze Age Britain" by R Darlow (available online).

  2. #2
    Regular Member KING CUNOBELIN's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    I suppose I should apologize for being so extensive in the above message, it kind of boxes other people into an unknown corner, and that is not fair. Britain is a like a great black hole in prehistory, where there is so much evidence to be looked at, and yet so little sense or coherence to be found in its interpretation by the scholarly world. There is no alternative idea to explain the ancient Britons other than Trojans, but scholars have just denied, denied, denied. That is all very well, but I'm a scholar too, and I myself have found the sensible interpretation of the archaeological evidence that confirms the bardic lore as being broadly true. What ground then does the scholarly world stand upon? If nobody can reasonably find or present any substantial objection to the claim that Trojans did found ancient Britain, then surely the best theory to run with is that they indeed did found Britain under King Bryttos circa 1230-20bc?

  3. #3
    Progressing Member Kafir Bey's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    That subject has always attracted me. The Trojan settlements in Great Britain should not be confined only after the fall of Troy (I am referring to the Troy VII-A). Due to the lack of literary sources, we do not know what paths pursued the homeless Trojans while they went in Great Britain. It doesn't make sense at all that they pursued sea-routes in their way to Great Britain on the ground that Western Mediterranean was still difficult to pass over. We may justly assume that Trojans were settled in Illyria or in Italy. After they got well-established, they continued their migrations northward following the old routes, which were known by the rest of Illyrians. If the Illyrians were the bearers of Halshtat culture, they had traversed Central Europe long before Trojan expeditions.

    Illyrians have been places in ‘Asia Minor, the Balkan peninsula, practically all over Italy, in the Alpine regions…., in the Danube basin…, even in western Poland, Switzerland, Germany, France, Spain, and the British Isles’. (Pulgram 1958:169)
    One is tempted to mention for instance the case of Picts. They have been accredited as bearers of a well-advanced technology and may have been as responsible for distribution of Halshtatt culture over Great Britain. A source of mine appears to suggest that Picts were accompanied by a multitude of Illyrians:

    http://i15.servimg.com/u/f15/13/95/49/70/untitl42.jpg

    The practice of tatooing makes more plausible that Picts were of Illyrian stock. It's worth of mentioning also the worship of snake in both Scotland and Ireland. If I am not mistaken, both of these countries offers no condition for snakes. Yet the snake has been widely worshiped in pre-Christian Ireland. Needless to say, Illyrians adored the serpent - as it is ascertained by the archeological findings. They perceived snakes as defenders of their race - which is why even the founder - Cadmus - has been embodied in serpent by the Zeus. Such a deep-rooted religious addiction to serpent was inherited even by the Albanians. Being so, I am thrilled to know if the Illyrians were responsible for spreading the cult of serpent even in Great Britain?

  4. #4
    Moderator ameraol's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    Quote Originally Posted by KING CUNOBELIN View Post
    I've spent a good many years looking into this question and can provide a resounding YES in answer, albeit just an informed opinion. According to the archaeology, Troy (Hissarlik in western Turkey) fell to the Greeks circa 1275bc. Many Trojans were taken captive and enslaved in Epirus in n. Greece, according to traditional records. These bonded Trojan slaves lived in shame at Butrint in Albania (then called Buthrotum in Epirus, northern Greece), and there they remained until a hero arrived some 40 years later. His name was Brutus (although his actual name was more likely Bryttos), a great-grandson of King Aeneas of Latium (formerly Prince Aeneas of Troy, hero of The Iliad). After the war, Aeneas had led many of the survivors from Troy to ancient Italy, when it was called Latium. He married a Latin princess named Lavinia, with their royal residence at the new town of Lavinium. Here it is believed that Brutus (Bryttos) was born. Aged 15 years he was sent out of Latium with an army of 3000 men. His sole purpose, it appears, was to join with his captive kin in Epirus. He soon became their leader and sued the Greeks to let his people go free. After the refusal, a brief war followed in which the Mycenean and Spartan wings of the proto-Greek alliance were wiped out. Prince Bryttos (Brutus) proved that cunning in war could overcome superior strength and might. Having won their victory over the Greeks, it was the choice of the Trojans then to sail far away to the safety of a famed island in the west. It was then called The White Isle, or Albinn (Albion). But once it was settled by so many thousands of war-hardened Trojans, who soon came to live all across and up and down the land, then it was given the name of Britain from its founding king, Bryttos. Now that is broadly the written tradition, but a good deal can be added to substantiate the claims that are made in this tradition. One such substantiation is the mysterious disappearance of the Myceneans and the equally strange appearance of the Dorians, a problem that historians have struggled with for many years. Yet the ignorance they have practised towards British sources like Geoffrey of Monmouth, is all that has allowed this problem to persist. The modern Greeks cannot be happy to discuss matters of their own glorious past as being bound up with the Albanians to the north. Nor can they tolerate thoughts that the mighty proto-Greeks might have been overcome by Trojans (from modern western Turkey) allied with cultural elements that were proto-Albanian, and that these latter elements became then known as the Dorians, the new masters of what then became known as Greece. The implications are undestandably difficult to deal with for the Greeks, hence there is a wedge blocking progress in this direction. Over in Britain we find a similar "head-in-sand" dynamic, where so many "scholars" ignore the claimed past of the Britons, as they have been conditioned to do. My own investigations have revealed many evidences of Trojans arriving in Britain circa 1220bc, when there was a clear shift in the form of archaology found. Because the Trojans were an advanced people, their fields of activity were broad. They used chariots and wagons pulled by horses or oxen. They developed roads, of a primal form. They built hill-forts and occupied walled towns. They brought new styles of weapons, using new refinements of metallurgy for stronger blades, and new types of casting-moulds for casting sturdier and more deadly forms of axes, spears etc. These people also practised better agriculture, weaving and industry, and their methods persisted right into the Celtic Iron Age. The archaeologists refer to the period of their settlement in the Late Bronze Age as a period of "industrial revolution", yet they have no context for this, it is but an excuse to avoid discussing the cultural issues. It is obvious and clear that we can distinguish between the Trojan and Albion-ite archaeology to determine where the Trojans settled in Britain. To read very much more on this subject try the recently published book "King Bryttos & The Trojan Origins Of Bronze Age Britain" by R Darlow (available online).
    That was really too long. If I got this right, you meant Brittons have had as their ancestors the Troyans?

  5. #5
    Regular Member KING CUNOBELIN's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    Ameraol, that's ok, I can go on a bit. Yes, I mean to report the traditions of ancient scribes that the Britons had a Trojan descended grandson of Aeneas as their first king circa 1230 bc. Some call them Troyanos. I also have found a great wealth of archaeology that confirms the arrival of a new people into the land at that time, showing many signs of where they came from.

  6. #6
    Regular Member KING CUNOBELIN's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    Kafir, the route of the Trojans in their voyage from western Greece to Britain is reasonably clear. They sailed to Malta, then across the north coast of Africa, through the Straits of Gibraltar. They sailed into the Loire estuary and then on to Britain's southern shores. That is what is reported by Geoffrey of Monmouth, but such a thing is hard to prove.
    I do think that the Trojan diaspora directly fed into the Hallstatt A culture of Switzerland because they wielded the same kind of swords as we see appearing in southern Britain at roughly the same time period. The technological advances that people had generally referred to their metallurgical knowledge. On the subject of the Tojan diaspora (dispersal), that is an "event" that spanned over about 150 years from what I can tell, when many local cultures and colonies were founded.
    There were serpent cults of course, such as the Pythian priestess at the oracle of Apollo. Cadmus used the double-snake seemingly as a symbol of healing. I think some people like tattoos, others don't. They can very easily become a cultural obsession for a tribal people, and why not? I don't know whether we can deduce much from them though. It is more marked that the Trojans brought with them to Britain a cult of horses rather than snakes. They poured libations of blood or wine upon sacred hearths. They slept in animal skins to invoke prophetic dreams. They sang or chanted verses of praise to their gods.
    Just for your information, Scotland (& Britain generally) does contain harmless grass snakes and poisonous adders, but they do not attack so many people as do the midgies.

  7. #7
    Progressing Member Kafir Bey's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    King Cunobelin, I found an interesting glimpse at Strabo's account which deals with the similarity of practices between Britain and Samothrace:

    He says that there is an island near Britain on which sacrifices are performed like those sacrifices in Samothrace that have to do with Demeter and Core.

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...trabo/4D*.html

  8. #8
    Regular Member KING CUNOBELIN's Avatar
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    Re: Was ancient Britain first founded by Trojan Brutus as Celtic traditions claimed?

    Hi Kafir, interesting write-up on the Belgic Celts by Strabo. But the Samothracian island he referred to is in the Bay of Biscay because the "Liger River" he refers to can only be the Loire. So his island is that where Le Palais and Locmaria are located, not Britain. Cheers though.

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